Identity - Revision history

TiberiusB: /* Individual vs person */

2026-05-08T14:38:12Z

Individual vs person

TiberiusB: /* Individual vs person */

2026-05-08T14:36:33Z

Individual vs person

TiberiusB: /* Individual vs person */

2026-05-08T14:34:28Z

Individual vs person

TiberiusB: /* Agent profile */

2026-04-18T05:35:28Z

Agent profile

TiberiusB: /* Individual vs person */

2025-07-15T19:19:44Z

Individual vs person

TiberiusB: /* Framework to consider identity in OVN */

2025-07-15T19:11:42Z

Framework to consider identity in OVN

TiberiusB: /* Credentials */

2025-07-15T18:33:57Z

Credentials

TiberiusB: /* Credentials */

2025-07-15T18:33:40Z

Credentials

TiberiusB: /* See also */

2025-07-13T17:43:54Z

TiberiusB: /* Problems with current identity systems */

2025-07-13T17:43:45Z

Problems with current identity systems

@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 =Individual vs person=
-In the OVN language, an ''individual'' is the physical you. You exist and therefore you have access to certain things, you can interact with the physical world around you, regardless of other individuals around you. A ''person'' is a representation of the physical you, it is an [[agent]] in a socio / economic context. For example, your person in a Monarchy is construed as a "subject of the King". In a Republic, your person is construed as a citizen. Your birth certificate, social security number, driver license, medical card are [[credencials]] issued by the Government that allow you rights or access to services provided to individuals who live in that social context. A person n a p2p environment rests on the social contract that peers has been agreed upon by peers.
+In the OVN language, an ''individual'' is the physical you. You exist and therefore you have access to certain things, you can interact with the physical world around you, regardless of other individuals around you. A ''person'' is a representation of the physical you, it is an [[agent]] in a socio / economic context. For example, your person in a Monarchy is construed as a "subject of the King". In a Republic, your person is construed as a citizen. Your birth certificate, social security number, driver license, medical card are [[credentials]] issued by the Government that allow you rights or access to services provided to individuals who live in that social context. A person n a p2p environment rests on the social contract that peers has been agreed upon by peers.
 Simply put, when it comes to interactions and relations, '''you interact as an individual if the only thing that is required from you is to ''exist''. As soon as things like [[reputation]] or [[credentials]] based on proven capabilities are required on top of your existence, you interact as a person. In other words, if something is required other than your mere existence that depends on your peers you act as a person or [[agent]].

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 Simply put, when it comes to interactions and relations, '''you interact as an individual if the only thing that is required from you is to ''exist''. As soon as things like [[reputation]] or [[credentials]] based on proven capabilities are required on top of your existence, you interact as a person. In other words, if something is required other than your mere existence that depends on your peers you act as a person or [[agent]].
-If we take for example the Bitcoin network, it is very individual-based. Everyone can create a wallet and transact on the network, in a [[permissionless]] manner, without any other type of reauirement. Only the fact that you exist allows you access to the network. Your private and public keys become an extension of your individual. Even networks like Ethereum with smart contract capabilities are very individual-based, because you only need your keys to execute a smart contract.
+If we take for example the Bitcoin network, it is very individual-based. Everyone can create a wallet and transact on the network, in a [[permissionless]] manner, without any other type of requirement. Only the fact that you exist allows you access to the network. Your private and public keys become an extension of you as individual. Even networks like Ethereum with smart contract capabilities are very individual-based, because you only need your keys to execute a smart contract.
 =Framework to consider identity in OVN=

@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 =Individual vs person=
-In the OVN language, an ''individual'' is the physical you. You exist and therefore you have access to certain things, you can interact with the physical world around you, regardless of other individuals around you. A ''person'' is a representation of the physical you, it is an [[agent]] in a socio / economic context. For example, your person in a Monarchy is construed as a "subject of the King". In a Republic, your person is construed as a citizen. Your birth certificate, social security number, driver license, medical card are [[credencials]] issued by the Government that allow you access to services provided to individuals who live in that social context. A person n a p2p environment rests on the social contract that peers has been agreed upon by peers.
+In the OVN language, an ''individual'' is the physical you. You exist and therefore you have access to certain things, you can interact with the physical world around you, regardless of other individuals around you. A ''person'' is a representation of the physical you, it is an [[agent]] in a socio / economic context. For example, your person in a Monarchy is construed as a "subject of the King". In a Republic, your person is construed as a citizen. Your birth certificate, social security number, driver license, medical card are [[credencials]] issued by the Government that allow you rights or access to services provided to individuals who live in that social context. A person n a p2p environment rests on the social contract that peers has been agreed upon by peers.
-Simply put, when it comes to interactions and relations, '''you interact as an individual if the only thing that is required from you is to exist'''''Italic text''. As soon as things like [[reputation]] or [[credentials]] based on proven capabilities are required on top of your existence, you interact as a person. In other words, if something is required other than your mere existence that depends on your peers you act as a person or [[agent]].
+Simply put, when it comes to interactions and relations, '''you interact as an individual if the only thing that is required from you is to ''exist''. As soon as things like [[reputation]] or [[credentials]] based on proven capabilities are required on top of your existence, you interact as a person. In other words, if something is required other than your mere existence that depends on your peers you act as a person or [[agent]].
 If we take for example the Bitcoin network, it is very individual-based. Everyone can create a wallet and transact on the network, in a [[permissionless]] manner, without any other type of reauirement. Only the fact that you exist allows you access to the network. Your private and public keys become an extension of your individual. Even networks like Ethereum with smart contract capabilities are very individual-based, because you only need your keys to execute a smart contract.

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:35, 18 April 2026
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	The data comes from participation in [[processes]], taking a task, delivering something, in a context of work. These are events or verified logs of [[contributions]].''		The data comes from participation in [[processes]], taking a task, delivering something, in a context of work. These are events or verified logs of [[contributions]].''

		+
		+
		+	=who you are vs you are the same agent as the first or last time=
		+
		+	https://x.com/i/status/2045024959320277346
		+
		+	[Tibi] -
		+	I wonder if @WeAreFlowsta is taking this into consideration. When it comes to digital credentials, should we trust an institution, an oracle, or peers through a process?
		+	If we talk about digital identity, YOU say who you are and we can corelate that with your credentials, we can rely on centralized social media platforms to enrich your identity, but can we trust these platforms and should we even rely on centralized platforms?
		+	Perhaps we can rely on peers to build our digital identity.
		+
		+	So what's true about YOU? Is it what you say? Is it what an institution says? Is it what we can aggregate on centralized social media?
		+	Or perhaps it's the history of your interactions with your peers which you own/host as private immutable data, on your private chain, that you can partialy and selectively reveal to others to prove that you are who you say you are, that you ca actually do what you say you can do, and thus build a picture of your identity?
		+	We're moving towards that in Nondominium with Private Particpation Receipts.
		+	github.com/Sensorica/nond…
		+	I mean, what all these so-called digital identity systems do is to guarantee, with a certain degree of certainty, that you are the same agent as the first time, or as before, assuming no one has your keys or your computer. They don't actually say who you are.
		+	And when we focus on who you are we need to know if that's true.
		+	Truth about who you are is not the same as truth about if you are the same agent.
		+	The second is easier to establish than the first.
		+	As for the first, nowadays, the best answer is provided by p2p, through peer-validated interactions with your peers, which is the closest thing to reality that can be digitally captured. The answer from an institution, a platform or whatever centralized thing cannot be trusted anymore. Moreover, because of possible censorship, we must not put it in centralized institutions anyway, because that's giving control over our public identity to these institutions.
		+
		+	Same line of argument for AI agent vs Human agent, it's about what you are or who you are, that more fundamental question.
		+	It's easy to trick the are you the same agent as the previous agent question. Since the AI agent is under your total control you can just pass the same access token to it, and no one can detect. But if you build a Holochain app that at specific steps, in specific processes passes a "are you human" test on you, as part of a validation rule, and if that hApp is used to interact with other humans, who are obliged to do the same, and on top of that also asks these humans to provide a "is he/she a human" input, only in key processes, coupled with the Private Particpation Receipts, then cheating becomes harder.

@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 =Individual vs person=
-In the OVN language, ''individual'' is the physical you. You exist and therefore you have access to certain things, you can interact with the physical world around you, regardless of other individuals around you. A ''person'' is a representation of the physical you, it is an [[agent]] in a socio / economic context. For example, your person in a Monarchy is construed as a "subject of the King". In a Republic, you person is construed as a citizen. Your birth certificate, social security number, driver license, medical card are [[credencials]] issued by the Government that allow you access to services provided to individuals who live in that social context. A person n a p2p environment rests on the social contract that peers has been agreed upon by peers.
+In the OVN language, an ''individual'' is the physical you. You exist and therefore you have access to certain things, you can interact with the physical world around you, regardless of other individuals around you. A ''person'' is a representation of the physical you, it is an [[agent]] in a socio / economic context. For example, your person in a Monarchy is construed as a "subject of the King". In a Republic, your person is construed as a citizen. Your birth certificate, social security number, driver license, medical card are [[credencials]] issued by the Government that allow you access to services provided to individuals who live in that social context. A person n a p2p environment rests on the social contract that peers has been agreed upon by peers.
-Simply put, when it comes to interactions and relations, you interact as an individual if the only thing that is required from you is to exist. As soon as things like [[reputation]] or [[credentials]] based on proven capabilities are required on top of your existence, you interact as a person. In other words, if something is required other than your mere existence that depends on your peers you act as a person or [[agent]].
+Simply put, when it comes to interactions and relations, '''you interact as an individual if the only thing that is required from you is to exist'''''Italic text''. As soon as things like [[reputation]] or [[credentials]] based on proven capabilities are required on top of your existence, you interact as a person. In other words, if something is required other than your mere existence that depends on your peers you act as a person or [[agent]].
 =Framework to consider identity in OVN=

@@ Line 7: / Line 7: @@
 Antonyms: anonymity, sibyl, clone.
 =Framework to consider identity in OVN=
-Trend --> identity and [[reputation]] will be increasingly detached from vertical integration and provided as powered by composable protocols (think about Lens protocol, a composable social graph and social interaction protocol that is gaining ground in the web3 space);
+Identities must be verifiable, unique, secure, private, and portable.
-Identities must be verifiable, unique, secure, private, and portable.
+[[Access]] to some processes may require [[reputation]] and / or [[credentials]]. These will be increasingly detached from vertical integration and provided as powered by composable protocols (think about Lens protocol, a composable social graph and social interaction protocol that is gaining ground in the web3 space). This means that you're now interacting as a ''person'', your identity is of "person"-type. For example, access to governance can be granted algorithmically via a [[Benefit Redistribution Algorithm]].
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-Note that most ideas about identity are construed in a paradigm of control and domination. Birth certificate, passport, social security number, driver’s license are instruments used to link the physical you to actions that are in the interest of the government, for various purposes such as paying your taxes and accessing benefits provided by the governmental institutions. At the opposite of this is the anarchist thinking or paradigm. But the important thing to consider here is that these instruments are mistaken for identity. Identity is not to be understood from a bureaucratic perspective, but from a psychological and social perspective - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_(social_science) see Wikipedia].
+Note that most ideas about identity, more specifically person-type identities, are construed in a paradigm of control and domination. Credentials like a birth certificate, passport, social security number, driver’s license are instruments used to link the physical you (the individual) to actions that are in the interest of the government, for various purposes such as paying your taxes and accessing benefits provided by the governmental institutions. At the opposite of this is the anarchist thinking or paradigm. But the important thing to consider here is that these instruments are mistaken for identity. In these cases the person-identity is understood from a bureaucratic perspective, less from a psychological and social perspective - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_(social_science) see Wikipedia]. In p2p bureaucracy tends to be automated and person-type identities focus more on psychological, social and economic aspects.
 In the context of [[OVN]] / [[OVNi]], one of the most important function of ''identity'' is [[access]] (to [[resources]] and [[processes]]). In this context, the question becomes how do we provide [[access]] to an individual to economic activity in a very low friction way, in the spirit of ''[[openness]]''. What does it take to make p2p economic activity efficient and effective, and at the same time humane, rewarding, enriching.
-For example, partaking in the activities of the Bitcoin Network (as a minor or engaging in transactions) is totally anonymous, doesn’t require one to provide information about one’s life. In this context [[permissionless]] only requires a piece of hardware, the open source software and energy, all situated outside of the network, under total control of the individual. Identity becomes irrelevant (who I am, where I live, what culture I partake in, etc.). This is the essence of a [[trustless]] environment. The [[OVN]] model, is built on similar principles of minimal information required about social aspects of [[agents]]. In other words, [[OVN]] is not about control, but about maximizing economic freedom (access to economic processes, ability to opt in and out at will). This is not a matter of ideology or preferences, there are economic arguments for it (more on the [[Openness]] page).
+For example, partaking in the activities of the Bitcoin Network (as a minor or engaging in transactions) is totally anonymous, doesn’t require one to provide information about one’s life. In this context [[permissionless]] only requires a piece of hardware, the open source software and energy, all situated outside of the network, under total control of the individual. Person-type identity becomes irrelevant (who I am, where I live, what culture I partake in, etc.). This is the essence of a [[trustless]] environment. The [[OVN]] model, is built on similar principles of minimal information required about social aspects of [[agents]], it is also [[permissionless]] at the basic level, but the OVN also allows interaction of various type of person-type identities for some sensitive processes, most of which are implemented algorithmicaly. [[OVN]]s are not about control, but about maximizing economic freedom (access to economic processes, ability to opt in and out at will). This is not a matter of ideology or preferences, there are economic arguments for it (more on the [[Openness]] page).
-To [[contribute]] to an [[open venture]] an [[agent]] doesn't need show [[credentials]], similar to contributing to an [[open source]] project or to Wikipedia. [[Benefits]] are distributed based on work done, not based on a promise of work, with a peer review process in place for validating the pertinence of the work done. An [[agent]] doesn't need to demonstrate prior knowledge or experience, doing it right it’s all that matters. On the other hand, the individual contributor ([[agent]], [[affiliate]]) may want to accrue [[contributions]], [[reputation]]and credentials, and to provide an identifier in order to direct the distribution of [[benefits]]. This requires some sort of digital identifier, which may be represented by an address (can be a wallet on blockchain) or a pseudonym and some type of authenticating credential.
+To [[contribute]] to an [[open venture]] an [[agent]] doesn't need show [[credentials]], similar to contributing to an [[open source]] project or to Wikipedia. When it comes to distribution of [[benefits]], at the more basic level they are based on past contributions (work done), with a peer review process in place for validating the pertinence of the work done. At the most basic level of a [[Benefit Redistribution Algorithm]] an [[agent]] doesn't need to demonstrate prior knowledge or experience, or reputation, doing the work right it’s all that matters. At this basic level the interaction is mediated at the individual level. On the other hand, the individual contributor ([[agent]], [[affiliate]]) may want to accrue [[contributions]], [[reputation]] and [[credentials], which forms a [[profile]], a persona, represented by some sort of digital identifier, which may be represented by an address (can be a wallet on blockchain) or a pseudonym and some type of authenticating [[credential]]. Using a person-like identity can allow groups of people, networks, to engage in more complex activities.

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 *interfaces with existing mechanisms, such as contracts, insurance, agreements.
-More about [[Credentials]].
+More about [[Credential]].
 =Challenge=

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 =See also=
 [[Agent]]
 [[Profile]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:43, 13 July 2025
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	devices;		devices;
	* are not always sure since access to an identity may be completely lost due theft or device loss.		* are not always sure since access to an identity may be completely lost due theft or device loss.
		+
		+	=See also=
		+	[[Agent]]
		+	[[Profile]]